Monday, 01 December 2008

• Reply to the Rapture is made up on Revel life.

  Ok went and did it again.  I ought to ignore such posts.  How in the world do people twist the scriptures.  The same way Lawyers twist the law, for the benefit of their clients.  Enough said, I did comment on this erroneous post (yes that is a judgment call, but sorry if your opinion isn't backed up by God, I have the right to challenge it, and call it wrong).
  
  So here was my reply to that post, edited for this post
  
  Granted the word Rapture, and Trinity aren't in the bible.
  I don't have to believe any man made definition but what God does say I do! But the word translation, and translated is in reference to a bodily change (Heb 11:5)
  
  But the scriptures are plain:
  We shall be change in a moment in a twinkling of eye (1 Cor 15:50-52) PERIOD. How hard is that to believe. Don't twist it like some lawyers twist the law for their clients.
  
  Secondly
  The dead in Christ shall rise first(1Thes 4:14-17). How do you get unsaved in that one? Reading 1 Thes 4:13-15, these are the Dead/asleep in Christ. Again by twisting through intellectual reasoning of words. Take it the way it's written. If I'm born again I'm in Christ, when I die I am part of the dead in Christ.  Also it shows poor grammar too, Dead in Christ - are Christ's, Dead to Christ would be unsaved, totally lost.  Please watch those small words they carry big meanings.
  
  I think you are leaning to Atheism. Fact is a lot of articles in Revelife are probably posted by outright unbelievers.
  
  Scriptures are either right or wrong. God said let every man's word be a lie. So what your saying is diametrically opposite God's word. I can only but believe your statement is a lie, and unintentional one at best
  

  Also it is in revelations.  There is the second death, and only true born again believers avoid that one.

  Rev. 20:5-6
  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.  This is the first resurrection.
  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

  Those going in "the dead in Christ, Twinkling of an eye" are the first resurrection.
  Scriptures do not disagree with scripture.  Just believe it the way it written.

  The twinkling of an eye is biblical and it's the FIRST RESURRECTION so that makes it part of Revelations.
  
  Also there was four recorded raptures (which also can be resurrections) in the bible that have happened:
  1.Enoch - the seventh from Adam (Gen 5:22-24, Heb 11:5, Jud 1:14)  (like the seventh Church in Revelation (Rev 3:14-22) there is reason for pointing out the seventh in Jude (like Hint Hint translation) [only overcomers go in the translation/rapture])
  2.Elijah (2Ki 2:11)
  3.Jesus Christ - (All Gospel resurrection accounts) the New Testament can't start till His Death and resurrection.
  4.The Graves where opened and the old testament Saints rose. (Mt 27:52-3, Act 1:10)
  
  Two are yet to occur:
  1st
  I CORINTHIANS 15:51
       51     ¶  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
  
  I CORINTHIANS 15:52
       52    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
  (Some say this isn't a rapture scripture, don't they have eyes?  Trump is mentioned here as well in the Thessalonian ones too.  Also note it says "We shall not all sleep"  All is inclusive of everyone - this statement isn't - so some of us are going to be here at that twinkling of an eye.  That again shows poor understanding of the basic rules of grammar).
  or
  I THESSALONIANS 4:16
       16    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
  
  I THESSALONIANS 4:17
       17    Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
  
  Here is another reference to the Dead/Awake living together with Christ.
  
  (1Th 5:9)  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
  
  (1Th 5:10)  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
  
  2nd The 144,000 of Rev 7.  Along with the two prophets of Revelations who rise again.
  
  [hmm. Some of the rebutters keep saying two locations, there are several Old Testament references to a change for the saints (which can be taken as type for the New Testament believer) besides more than two spots in the New Testament - Mat 24:40-1, Luk 17:35-7, 1 Cor 15:50-2, I Thes 4:14-17, 1 Thes 5:9-10 Rev 4:1, Rev 4:7, Rev 6:7, Rev 7 and Rev 20:5-6)
  
  Those who keep saying two places (and then twisting through logic reasoning of a lawyer) your answer does not prevail on a scripture test.
  There are too many scriptural witnesses of a change for the believer, and his going from the flesh to the Lord in Glory.
  
  Now I also keep reading that Matt 24:40-41 are for those taken into judgment.  That again is a wrong interpretation of that scripture.  This stems from an old school of thought (reading some of the Commentaries) but here is what the famous John Wesley said on the matter:
  
  "Mat 24:40  One is taken - Into God's immediate protection: and one is left - To share the common calamities. Our Lord speaks as having the whole transaction present before his eyes."
  
  Reading Matt 24:42
  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
  
  and with the Fact that Matt 24:38 says Noe went in the ark - ties in that these are believers being taken to safety. (also the Lord himself said if he would cut time short - their be no faith left - He takes His own before it's too late)
  
  Again these scriptures in Matt 24 are basically  repeated again in Luke 17.  Reading the whole thing in context, we find Christ speaking of the escape of the believer.  Lot was taken out of the city, so the the believer is taken out from the judgments that will befall this world.
  
  Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.  Matt 24:28 , and Lk 17:37.  Eagles here uses the same word as eagle in Revelations (the Last beast to withstand the last horse rider  - a creature with wings to escape with).   Eagles prefer fresh kill, Christ is our fresh kill(except ye eat my body ...) and has never staled or rotten. (now some translations put it as a vulture but that isn't correct, how can it be vulture in gospels and eagle in Revelations from the same word -huh - again the ignorance of not following grammar/meaning of words).
  Now the old commentaries tend to differ, but eagles like fresh kill, only one fresh kill for the believer.  Also the Eagle is before the throne of God, and the final creature against the final horse rider.   Again the Eagles can fly, and so do the believers before judgments strike this world.  So as I see it there is another reference tho very subtle to a translation/rapture in Revelations (4:7, and Rev 6:7)
  
  If you don't believe there is going to be a rapture/change in believers, I then tell you what, I can assure you this, in your present condition when the translation/rapture occurs you won't be in it.  For God doesn't drag us into something we don't believe.  He's a gentleman.
  
  I think the absolute and safest course of action is to believe the Scriptures the way they are written.   Additionally the way the church world presents the rapture I doubt that will happen that way.  He comes as a thief in the night, and only those prepared are going to meet Him and it will be very very very few.  Those very very very few will hear the trumpet sound.  For very few really recognized Christ when He was here on earth, so why should it be any different.  It will be a church, but His Church of believers not some group/denomination/cult, but individuals who alone stood for Christ.
  
  The final conclusion of the matter is real simple:
  Jesus Christ the same Yesterday, today, and forever.  - God has never changed (Heb 13:8, Mal 3:6,  Num_23:19; 1Sa_15:29; Psa_102:26; Heb_6:18, Heb_13:8; Jam_1:17; Rev_1:8; Rev_22:13)
  
  So if there was translations in the Old Testament there will be translations for the New Testament too.
  
  
  
  PS: Scripture references used:
  Gen 5:22-24, Heb 11:5, Jud 1:14, 2Ki 2:11, Mat 24:40-1, Luk 17:35-7,Mt 27:52-3, Act 1:10, 1 Cor 15:50-2, I Thes 4:13-17, 1 Thes 5:9-10, Rev 3:14-22, Rev 4:1, Rev 4:7, Rev 6:7, Rev 7 and Rev 20:5-6
  Heb 13:8, Mal 3:6,
  
  

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